Heater installation

Retro's original heaters are radiant gas heaters, and I do not really trust the 50 year old units.  They look fine, but I am not certain that they would not leak CO into the living area and they do take a lot of room.   I already removed one as documented in an earlier post,  and I am replacing that heater with a forced air RV furnace.   I am installing the furnace in the area where the original water heater was:

This A.C. Electric only water heater is also being replaced by a gas / electric / motor-aid water heater that will be installed where the refrigerator was.

One reason for this location for the heater is that the side of the coach has rub-rails (bumps) and there is a gap between them which will nicely fit the combustion air intake / exhaust plate for the furnace.
One benefit of this installation is that the space above the heater becomes available for a closet or pantry, depending on where I put the door.  The combination of water heater and the old radiant heater took a lot of space.

After removing the water heater I installed a rail for the heater shelf to sit on and cut a new shelf out of plywood:

The front face of the heater exhausts the warm air and needs to be flush with the front of the cabinet.  The intake / exhaust tubes for the heater are too short to reach the outer wall of the coach, so I am going to need to extend them. (longer pipes can be purchased, but I could not find a reliable source for the parts - and I own a MIG welder!

Intake / Exhaust too short to reach wall

Original exhaust pipe cut to weld in as extension 

Extensions in place

It reaches!

The holes are the size specified in the heater manual.

Plate screwed down and sealed

Overall not terrible.   The plate is sealed with Automotive RTV which will tolerate the temperatures of the exhaust plate.   The welding is okay, and I will wrap some aluminum tape around the joints to ensure that they are gas-tight (they look gas-tight,  but I have no good way to really test them - belt and suspenders time! )

I am going to use threaded metal inserts on the wood platform for the heater and screw the heater down with 1/4 x 20  machine screws.  That will be better than the sheet metal screws provided with the heater - I will be able to remove the heater for repairs without damaging the screwholes in the wood.

In addition to working on the heater,  I put a coat of spar polyurethane varnish on the subfloor in the back.   I will add another coat or two.   This is simply to help the wood resist the effects of any moisture that may happen.   I am thinking about installing some sort of moisture / water sensors into the walls and under the carpet to alert me in the event of water leaks either from outside,  or from the water system which is located in the bedroom.   Water leaks are the greatest threat to retro's health in the long term.

New bedroom subfloor - needs more spar varnish.

I also have been working in the living room - took apart the damaged wall and opened up the wiring / control center.   I have been verifying the wiring to the original factory schematics provided with Retro.    I want to move switches down to the dash for things like the heaters / defrosters and dash fans.   It is difficult to grab the correct switch on the overhead panel while driving.   I will probably leave the generator controls up there.  I will make a new panel face so that it looks correct. 

So many things to play with!

This window frame leaked - new butyl tape on order.

Not very sanitary wiring.  The wires on the two round meters on

 the left have 120VAC on them!

It is good to be making progress again !   Of course the next two weekends,  including the 4 day Thanksgiving weekend are slated for rain!  I suppose I can work inside the rig well enough. 

Near term projects:

Scope out the wiring and figure out how to split the chassis and house electrical systems in a way that makes the most sense

Remove generator for restoration  - it runs,  but the governor does not work and it needs general cleanup and some rubber parts and hoses replaced.

Remove radiator for rodding out and evaluation

Till Next Time  

Floor IN!

I got the new plywood for the bedroom floor in today,  and the drivers side small rear window.
#14 X 1 1/4 screws holding the wood to the metal subfloor.

I hope to keep working at it - it feels good to be putting at least some of it back together!

Time to drive

It has been a while since I have worked on Retro, but most of my distracting tasks have been finished and I am getting back to the bus.   Since I have not really driven Retro much since I got him home,  I thought I should take him for a drive before putting him in drydock for a while.   I need to pull the radiator and get it rodded out,  and with the front of the engine compartment open I think I will be doing lots of little jobs on the front of the engine

     1.    Re-work the electric radiator fans to get more coverage of the radiator - maybe add 2 more fans.,
     2.    Work on the wiring for the alternator / regulator -  Retro's ammeter jumps all over the place when I am driving.  I think the load and alternator output should be relatively smooth.

     3.   Re-work the wiring for the various gauge sensors - maybe add a few more things to be measured.   The trans temp gauge does not work for example, and it seems kind of important.

     4.   Evaluate the possibility of an engine driven air-conditioning system.

     5.    Evaluate the possibility of a swing out radiator.



Anyway,  I figure Retro will not be drivable for at least two months.   I wanted to get him moving and let all the fluids circulate and heat up etc.    So, I disconnected the power cables and secured all the loose gear inside Retro and opened the gates.  

Retro started up easily and we eased down the driveway.   I took him around the block and then parked in front of the neighbors house while I closed the gates and garage.    Retro has no real parking brake, only a Mico brake-lock,  so it is not trivial to park him on a sloping street.   I always put chocks on the wheels, even with the Mico activated.

Gates and doors secured,  we got back underway.   I had filled the wastewater tank (retro has only one) and thought I would head out to Tracy, Ca.  and hit I5 south.  There is a rest-stop with a dump station a mile or so south of the merge onto I5 S.   I made it almost a mile before Retro started grumbling.  He was acting fuel-starved.  I was operating on the rear fuel tank, and the gauge said I had half a tank of gas.    I  had also put some gas in the front tank, but only perhaps 4-5 gallons or so to test the generator.  I was on a twisty turny bit of 2 lane road when the motor quit,  but there was a driveway into a school facility 50 yards ahead of me and no on-coming traffic,  so I managed to coast into the driveway (which is a gravel wide spot in the road with the driveway perhaps 100 feet off the road)   and stop and think a bit.    I played with the fuel pump selector switch a bit and then tried the starter and sure enough,  he started up.   I turned him around and headed back toward town quickly deciding that I could empty the tanks at the RV park at the local fairgrounds, or maybe just go home.

Retro was cooperating so I passed by the cross street back to home and headed toward the fairgrounds -  I really wanted to empty the tank before starting a big work session.   After a few miles, Retro started getting balky again, eventually stalling out on a 2 lane 35mph surface street.  Fortunately,  it was an easy spot for cars to go safely around me,  and with the emergency flashers on, there were no close calls.    I decided to switch to the front tank, which the gauge said was empty, but I figured 5 gallons out of 55  probably does not move the needle.    I switched the fuel selector, and the fuel pump switch and Retro started right up.   I circled a block and went back to Safeway and got in line for some gas.  I put about 25 gallons in the front tank,  and 30 in the rear.   I switched back to the rear tank  (which I trusted more because it was the one that got me from Los Angeles back up to the S.F. Bay area) .   I then proceeded to the fairgrounds to use the dump station there and discovered that the fancy Thetford swing and extend sewer hose thing had a broken hose in it.   I discovered this by inspection rather than flooding the area,  and I got an extension hose from the storage bay and rigged it into place - I had to move to a different area to get close enough to the dump pipe, but managed to get it emptied without making a mess.   I will have to replace the dump valve, but that is a chore for a different day :)

When I got in to leave the fairgrounds,  Retro was again acting fuel starved.   I switched back to the forward tank and went home.   I will add an inspection and re-work of the fuel system to the list of chores for this work cycle.

I hope to be working on Retro more regularly,  though I do have some competition for weeknights - My two welding classes  ( 2 nights of actual welding  and one of book-learning ) started last week, and the classes run from 6:30 - 9:30 ish,  so no work on the coach those nights.  (not that I am much of a night worker anyway,  I  am more of a night-comfy-chair-holder-downer given a choice).

Till next time....

Rear Windows

I have been working on the rear windows most recently.

One of the windows had a definite water leak, and the water from that leak is what ruined the street-side rear corner area of the bus.

The first picture shows the damage on the driver's side, and the second one shows how the windows are installed - the glass is held in place with a rubber gasket between the body of the bus and the window glass.  The rubber on two windows is cracked and very brittle.  On the third window, (the drivers side rear window)  the gasket is different than the other two.  It is still pliable, but is a little loose and this is where the water has seeped in.  It is obvious that someone tried to seal it with silicone sealant,  but this is not effective for this application.

I used a chisel to carefully remove the brittle rubber.

The glass all came out without breaking.

The paint on the inside has unstuck from the steel in some places.   Also,  you notice that there are an inside and an outside body panel spot-welded together.   They are not the same height!  This means that part of the body is thinner than in other parts of the window.   I am going to weld a bead along the top inside edge of the outer body panel to make it thicker.   I will grind it down since my welding leaves something to be desired.   I also plan to coat it with epoxy to make it smoother.

Here is another shot of the rear corner before removing anything - a reference for how it goes back together!


So far,  I have welded, ground,  epoxied and sanded the metal clean.  I have primed and painted both the inside and outside.    I removed the aluminum strip from the outside which was below the windows and am polishing it up before re-installing it.   Always lots of cleaning and polishing work available on Retro!

Floor patched

I have patched the big hole in the floor where the water tank drain was!

I bought a MIG welder (seems like a handy thing to have if you own a 50 year old all-steel motorhome)  from Craigslist.  It was a pretty sweet deal including the cart and a gas bottle, and a very slightly used Lincloln 140 welder.

I worked to get the steel patch as close of a match as I could to the hole, it had some pretty good gaps part of the way around, but was pretty tight in some places.

I welded carefully - not running a bead too far at a stretch so that I would not overheat the thin steel and cause it to sag.  In some parts of the circle I was filling a gap of perhaps 3/8 ".

As you can see above, it is pretty lumpy and bumpy at this point, so I got my power grinder out and spent the next hour grinding away metal that it seemed to take mere minutes to put in place - 15 minutes of welding and an hour of grinding!

At this point, the deck is smooth enough to install the wood over,  so I am done grinding.  I painted with some primer to match the rest of the floor.  I also sprayed underneath with some rust-oleum undercoat paint.

I am pretty happy with this patch - it is my first experience welding.  I have signed up for welding classes at the local community college,  I would really like to KNOW what I am doing instead of guessing.

More to follow!

Slow time - other projects

Well, I have not been working on Retro much for the past month or so,  I have been busy with some other projects that came up.   I did buy a used MIG welder, and also managed to sign up for some MIG welding classes (seemed like a good idea).

Took Retro for a spin last weekend, never good to have a vehicle just sit.   I put gas in the recently drained front tank, so now the generator has access to fuel,  I just need to get it connected to the battery so I can try to start it.  I am sure it will need some work to get it running.   

I should be able to get back on task with Retro in the next week or so.

My current idea of a task list is:

1.  Weld patch on floor where water tank drain was.
2.   Patch screw holes where old wood subfloor was screwed to steel deck
3.   Replace rear window seals - current seals are dried out and cracked,  is cause of significant rainwater leak into bedroom - probably responsible for part of the damaged wood.
4.   Replace wood subfloor in bedroom

That should keep me busy for a while !

Rust Treatment

Retro has a number of spots where water has leaked in, particularly in the bedroom along the rear wall.  The water soaked some of the wood, destroying it and also got under the floor wood and rusted the 14 gauge steel deck in some spots.

I am using a product called Ospho to treat the rust.  According to it's manufacturer it will convert the iron oxide (rust) into iron phosphate, which is a stable metal.  After treatment and conversion, I will paint the deck with some self-etching primer.    This may be a slight problem, since the metal is galvanized and most paints do not stick to galvanized metal.  The rust-oleum self-etching primer was the only kind that did not indicate on the label not to use on galvanized metal.    After I bought some I investigated further on the rust-oleum website and it said there that it was not for galvanized metal, but I am hoping that after treatment with the ospho,  the paint will stick.   In any case,  the paint will be under the wood floor and I am not concerned with appearances.  I was hoping for some additional rust protection, but if the paint does not stick, it means the galvanized coating is still good and that should protect against rust, particularly since there should be no more moisture standing on the steel.

I think I am going to embed some moisture sensors in the walls and floors around the water system and plumbing,  maybe even under the windows.   The sensors should be cheap, and I can build a little arduino based system to monitor them and let me know if a leak starts.

Here is the floor with some ospho on it:

I will post more pictures after this weekend.    These are from last weekend.

Here is what I worked on tonight:

That is fresh wet water from a leak in the rear window (left side,  right of picture)  from the rain we had a few days ago.  It is neat to have the walls stripped and see where the leaks are.   I am going to try to find some new rubber seal that goes around the window and holds it into the bus.  If I can't find new seal, I will work to clean up what is there and possibly seal it with an appropriate caulk.  I think I will be able to find some seal that will work, though.   The floor was dry tonight, so I wire brushed all the loose rust away,  vacuumed the dust and painted ospho on.   The ospho is fairly dangerous to work with - it contains phosphoric acid as well as other stuff.  It stinks and can burn skin, so protective equipment is required when working with it.   I put a fairly small amount in a paint mixing cup - perhaps 10-20 cc's or so.  Then I brush it on and work it into the rust.   I spread it pretty thin - it is about as viscous as water.  If needed I will go back and do another coat tomorrow, let it dry till Saturday and then spray paint Saturday afternoon.

I may rent a MIG welder this weekend and patch the hole(s) in the floor.   There is about a 4" hole where the water tank drain was,  and lots of small holes - perhaps 1/8"  where the wood was screwed to the deck.   I got a nice piece of 14Ga steel and a box of 100  #14 X 1-1/4  screws - exactly like the ones I pulled out of the floor. If welding the small holes closed is impractical, I have some JB weld to seal them up with.  I just don't want the wood of the floor exposed to the outside if I can help it.

 It is exciting to think that the step of installing new 5/8 marine plywood onto the deck is coming up - perhaps even this weekend!    I will probably paint the wood with some epoxy paint - perhaps I should let it dry for a week before installing the floor.   I will read about epoxy paint and try to figure out the best thing to do.

Progress!!

Well, it's been two weeks and I have actually made some progress on Retro.  At first I was sort of... stuck.   I figured I needed to get the bedroom cabinets out in order to remove the wall paneling, some of which had been water damaged.  There were screws holding the top of the front of the cabinets to the ceiling, but I was uncertain of how the rest of the cabinets were held in.   It turned out to be a stack of 1X2 furring at the back which the rear of the bottoms of the cabinets were nailed into.  The furring stack was screwed to the metal frame of the bus.   Using a prybar I was able to get the cabinets out without too much damage,  and when I replace them, I will screw the back to the stack of furring strips so that it can be removed more easily in the future.

After getting the cabinets out, the wall paneling came pretty easily, I had to cut some sections but mostly I was able to pry it off.    Some of the fiberglass insulation was soaked and moldy, all the rotted wood and moldy fiberglass went to the dump.   Fortunately the specially cut corners were intact and I can use the old wall panel sections as templates for the new replacement wood.

After getting the walls out, I took out the aluminum water tank, plumbing and water pump. Then  I ripped up the carpet - both the "nice" carpet in the walkway and the industrial soundproofing carpet which had been under the beds.    This exposed the wood underlayment of  the floor,  some of which had also been rotted away from water leaks over the years.

Now the metal floor of the bus is exposed and there are a few issues to take care of!   First there is about a 4 inch hole which had been cut for the fresh water tank drain / cleanout.   Having looked in the tank (uugghh!)  I am pretty sure I am replacing it with a shiny new plastic one, so the hole can be closed and a new (smaller) hole installed for the new tank.  I want to weld a plate into the hole (or over it perhaps) to restore the structural integrity of the floor.   Also,  the floor is rusted in several areas.   This will be a job for Ospho rust converter.   The Ospho will convert the rust into Iron Phosphate, which is a stable form of metal.   I will then paint the entire floor with a good rust-resistant primer.

In addition to the demolition on the bedroom,  I removed the Jacknife sofa from the living room.This will let me remove and replace the water damaged wall panels which were behind the couch.

This brings us about up to date.
The next few weeks will see us working on:

Continued removal of bedroom floor,  covering drain hole,  fixing rust, priming floor
Replacing wood sub-floor in bedroom
Replacing wood furring strips in bedroom
Demolition of walls in living room
Replacing wood furring strips in living room
Replacing window framing (plywood) in bedroom and living room.



Maybe I will update in one week instead of two next time.

Plans

Retro needs a lot of work in different areas.   He has good bones, which makes it worthwhile to do the work that is needed - it is likely that if the various problem areas are properly addressed he will be a fine coach to travel and camp in.

By taking stock of Retro's condition and listing all the areas that need work I can plan the work so that where part of a system in one area affects a different area that I may not be working on yet  I can perhaps do a few extras that make the later work easier.

So here is a first draft of the things that need to be addressed in Retro - broken down by driving issues and living issues.

Driving Issues:

1.  Radiator needs to be cleaned.  When under high load like going up mountains,  Retro overheats.  this is mainly (probably) due to the radiator being clogged up.   The radiator needs to be removed and taken to a specialty shop and rodded out (rods pushed through the tubing to clean out gunk).

2. Brake lights don't work.   I think the hydraulic brakelight switch is bad.  There is electricity in the wire going to the switch, but not coming out.  The switch was replaced with the master cylinder rebuild so this kind of bugs me.  Some things I have read seem to indicate that these switches fail when used with the newer silicon based brake fluid.  I need to check into this.  There are mechanical replacement switches,  I might check those out.

3. No emergency brake.   This is a big deal.   There is a brake that is supposed to be installed on the back of the transmission and to the driveline.  It was removed by a previous owner for rebuild and the shop lost the pieces and so now Retro has no emergency and parking brake.   I think I can buy an old transmission that has the parts or maybe get a newer design that will fit Retro.

4. Gas tanks.  The two gas tanks are almost certainly rusty inside.  I can remove them and take them to a shop that will clean and then coat the inside.  

5. Radiator fans.    Retro has electric radiator fans.  The two fans do not cover all of the radiator.  I may be able to redesign the system with 4 fans and cover the whole thing better.

6.  Redo 12 Volt electrical system.    Right now,  Retro has 1 starting battery for starting the engine as well as running all the 12 volt items in the house part of the coach - lights,  water pump, refrigerator etc.    I want to split the system so that the house stuff has 2 or 4  deep-cycle batteries (how ever much fits physically) and the starting battery is used for starting the motor,  starting the generator  and for things like headlights / marker lights / brakelights / windshield wipers / turn signals etc.

7.  Redo  instrument panel - make beautiful and add a few instruments - gas gauge for each tank instead of switching one gauge between tanks,  fix transmission temp gauge, add brakelight indicator lamp etc.

Livability issues:

1.  Water damaged wood.    There have been water leaks over the years that have affected Retro's interior wood.   There are spots in the bedroom and living room and possibly more that I have not found yet.    I am going to remove the paneling in the bedroom,  remove most of the furring (the wood behind the wall that is screwed to Retro's steel frame and to which the paneling is nailed) and replace with new wood.     The living room has some problems of this type also, and I will do the same work there.

2.  Replace sofa & loveseat.    Retro was infested with rodents at one point so all the textiles in the bus are going to be replaced.  All the foam too.    

3.  Replace old window style air-conditioners with RV rooftop units.    This will also include removing the "boxes" that hang off of Retro's back and side and replacing them with smooth new steel panels painted to match the existing scheme.

4.  Replace lighting.   I am certainly going to LED lighting.   I may switch to all 12 Volt lighting. Right now the lighting is a combination of 120VAC fluorescent lights  and  12 volt lights in the same fixtures.  I could just replace the 12V bulbs with LEDs,  though I think I want to use LED strip lighting.   The fluorescents could be replaced with regular  120VAC lamp sockets with LED bulbs in them.  Put 2 or 3  in each existing fluorescent fixture and it should work fine.  But perhaps just having a 12 volt lighting system is good enough ? When I am plugged into power  the electricity would come from 120VAC  through the converter keeping the batteries charged.   I will think about this.   The 120 Volt circuits are already there and may be a good backup if something goes wrong with the 12 volt systems.


5. Convert two twin beds to one queen bed.

6. Add microwave / convection oven  (perhaps over stove as fan hood?)

7. Replace old fanless propane heaters with modern  RV  forced-air heaters, suplimented with 120VAC heaters - perhaps oil-filled radiant baseboard heaters ?

8. Redo coach plumbing with PEX pipe / fittings   and new faucets.   Maybe add outside shower.

9. Maybe replace current electric / motorheat only water heater with a modern  RV  propane / electric / motorheat water heater.   The current one works, but I am concerned about needing to have electricity when boondocking  to have hot water.   I don't want to have to run the generator for hot water.


There are lots of other small issues,  I will work on all of them over time.   When I first looked at Retro it seemed like I was looking at a 2-3 year project.  That still seems to be the case, however I want to try to work in a way that lets me use the coach even while the project is going on.  There will be times when things are pretty torn up and we can not go camping, but there should be time between the phases of work when we can use the coach and evaluate our work so far as well as how the original equipment that we have not gotten to yet is working.

The Tarp of Shame!

It has rained for about 10 days out of the last 15 or so. 

Retro has leaks, and I am not in a position to look for them from the inside, so I have covered him up with a couple of 17' X 19'  tarps.   I bought the 40 pack of bungee cords at Harbor Frieght and the tarps are pretty secure.

The tarps intersection is in line with Retro's door,  so I could still get in and work.

Now that the rains have stopped,  I have pulled the tarps off and Retro has regained some of his dignity.

Big Changes

When Jeff and I parted ways, we agreed to keep in contact and I told him that I was always interested in getting Retro back if he was unable to continue for some reason.

Jeff has worked with Retro for the last couple of months. He got the brakes working well, good tires and wheels, fixed some of the light issues, got the electric engine cooling fans working etc. He got the coach to the point where it is safely drive-able.

I had been keeping in touch with Jeff and keeping track of what I thought were reasonable costs for the work and components he was investing into Retro on my mental notepad. I had also been actively looking for another Bluebird opportunity (low-cost coach that did not need an engine overhaul or transmission rebuild - you know, something that would nickle and dime me rather than killing my bank account in one fell swoop!). I found an 80 FC with a cat that was only a little out of my price range. I spoke with my Wife about it and we were going to go for it, but she noticed that I was not very excited. The 80 was in okay shape and certainly had many more options that Retro did not have - icemaker, big fridge, awnings, air bags and brakes etc., but I was just not quite as exited as I could have been. We talked some more and I explained that I thought there was some chance that Jeff was about ready to sell Retro - although he sounded pretty excited the last time I spoke with him. Virginia brilliantly suggested that I call Jeff. What a stroke of Genius!! Why did I not think of that? When I spoke with Jeff the next day he explained that he is at a very busy point in life and did not really have time for Retro and my heart jumped! I was instantly overjoyed at the prospect of having this 49 year old dirty, partially broken, leaky money pit full of opportunity for genius and stupidity back in my life. Jeff asked for almost exactly what was on my mental notepad and we made the deal.

RETRO IS OURS AGAIN!

My son and I drove south from our S.F. Bay area home to L.A. in our towable Jeep Cherokee (full of tools - of course) and showed up at Jeff's about 9:00 AM on Friday. A couple of hours later, Zeke was driving the Jeep as I took Retro on the road for the first time. I had decided that driving independently rather than towing the Jeep would be better in the L.A. area traffic - boy was I right!! 

Traffic in L.A. sucks. Wait, thats not good enough. hmmm. SUCKS!

I was in heavy stop and go freeway traffic within 10 minutes of leaving Jeff's place. The temps were climbing and I realized I did not know the correct switch for the fan thermostat override! ( The switch is invisible. From my driving position it is exactly behind the steering wheel! ) I called Jeff and asked about the switch - I had been fooling with a different switch (unmarked of course) and it sure was not helping cool the engine. Anyway, Jeff straightened me out on the switch and things became much cooler quickly. The traffic was annoying, but not terrible, and the bus was doing well. It was forgiving my ignorance and trying to teach me how to drive it, and within the hour or so I had developed the proper throttle techniques to keep it from lurching through the gears.

Retro loves the road. I can not believe how smoothly he handles the highway. I see bumps in the road but never feel them. Oh, there are certain road conditions which give us a rattle, but he tracks straight and true and is better than I expected in nearly all respects.


Friday night found us in Santa Maria where we stopped and slept in a motel - the rig is unlivable now because of the mess left behind by some rodents that feasted on the food that had been left in it 13 years ago. All of the textiles will be replaced as well as a deep and thorough cleaning of hard surfaces before we live in Retro.

Leaving Santa Maria, we hooked up the Jeep and headed North. Retro towed the Jeep with no problem till we hit the Cuesta grade. Almost immediately the temps began climbing, even with the fans on and locking retro down into the lower ranges. I pulled into a turnout and we disconnected Indy (the Jeep) and let the bus idle with the fans on to cool.

Cooling was slow to happen. I decided to turn off the engine. It did not stop. This could be a problem, I think to myself. (I am quick that way). I figured that maybe it was some kind of circuit to keep things running to let the engine cool, though that would actually be dumb if one had a broken fanbelt for example.

It turned out that the fan-override switch being on in conjunction with the fan thermostatic control being on feeds juice back into the ignition from the override circuit through the thermostatic switch. I semi-randomly turned off the fan override and the engine quit (key off), then I turned on the override again.

Between the fans running, convective circulation and restarting the engine every few minutes, we got cooled down to an indicated 160 in perhaps 20 minutes. Note that the temps never got past an indicated ~ 210 or so, but I had been running about 170 on the highway when towing. We never blew any steam, but I am very sensitive to engines getting hot and prefer to sit on the side of the road to recasting engine components into interesting but inefficient new shapes.

I put Retro into low gear and restarted our ascent. My target speed was maybe 10 mph. Temps climbed. Within just a couple of minutes, we were back at 200 degrees. I stopped again and re-cooled and thought. My concern was not the absolute number of the temperature, but that it was always going up - I had not found the speed at which the work required of the engine was within the cooling systems ability to remove heat. It seems to me ( here is where I can embarrass myself ) that if it takes X work to move the coach 100 feet, doing X in 2 minutes gives the cooling system twice as much time to get rid of heat that if I do X in one minute by going twice as fast. Since the maximum cooling (lets call it Y) is fixed - determined by coolant flow and air flow through the radiator as well as the relative temperatures of coolant an air, there should be some speed where the heat generated is below the heat that the cooling system can get rid of and the system stabilizes at some temperature. If X > Y temps go up, If X<= Y temps stabilize or cool down. Since temps were going up, and I cant turn a magic dial to increase cooling, the only way is to slow down, right? How does 2mph sound. Seriously. I really was watching the flowers grow! 2mph up the Cuesta grade on the shoulder, watching the flowers grow.


I think the radiator may be clogged up. If the radiator is 40% clogged, but retro only needs 50% of the cooling capacity on the highway, then 50 < 60 and we are good. But on the hill, Retro need maybe 80 or 90 % and 90 > 60 and things heat up. I think the reason that slowing down did not help is that I was doing it wrong. Me locking the transmission down into low range may not have been the right thing to do. There is another decent hill between Salinas and Gilroy. On that one, I decided to let Retro do the thinking. All I did was limit to 5th gear on the uphill parts after he had already shifted into 5th. The temps stayed below 180, even though speeds got down to 40 or so (fans on via override). Of course, this hill is not Cuesta grade, Cuesta is about 4-5 miles of always up at a pretty good 6-7% grade, I think. The one north of Salinas has some up, then a little down, some level, some more up and so on till the end where there is a pretty good strech of climb. Letting the transmission do it's thing without my interference seems to help though. And I do think I am going to drain and inspect the radiator - maybe pull it and get it rodded, boiled or whatever they do to them to make them more better gooder.

We did get home about 8:30 Saturday night, and I did have a grin on my face.

One of the first things I did Sunday morning was to break out the shop vac and run the hose in through an open window. I proceeded to vacuum up all the evidence that rodents had left behind throughout the coach - I vacuumed floors and drawers, wiped counters and walls and generally cleaned up. As I vacuumed, I took a closer look at some of the damaged areas in the paneling - clear evidence of water damage in several places. I poked at the damaged wood with the shop vac and it pushed right through the paneling easily, as I expected it would. Behind the damaged wood was soggy fiberglass insulation and then the galvanized steel of the body panels and the ribs of the frame - also galvanized steel. Like a cyclone fence. Fairly rust resistant.


I have found some areas with rust, but right now do not expect it to be a major problem. You see, I was in the Navy. You know, those people who don't admit that they are fighting an unwinnable battle with nature and corrosion. Ships require constant maintenance - chipping away old paint and rust, applying new paint, lather, rinse, repeat. Forever.


Retro does not require constant cycles of rust treatment and prevention, but he does need a good stretch at the motorhome spa. The interior cabinetry and paneling will be removed in the bedroom and living room. The old insulation will be removed and the frame / body panels will be inspected and treated as required. Depending on the outcome of that work, the kitchen / bathroom (with much more complex cabinetry) may or may not be disassembled. The right thing will be done to ensure that all areas requiring work are taken care of. Retro will be pressurized with inert smoke to find leaks. Window frames, ceiling vents and other penetrations will be removed, refreshed and installed with new sealants. Roof panels will be cap-sealed at the joints, even the ones that might not be leaking now.

There are lots of ideas turning into plans for the future of Retro - with the tear-out that is planned lots of options are open.

Retro is now parked next to the garage in the special community approved "behind a fence" RV parking spot. He is covered with blue tarps because of some leaks around window frames and perhaps even in the roof panel overlaps. We have a week of El Ninio rains in the forecast, and with years of drought I am not going to begrudge the rain.

More to come on the "before" condition of Retro and some of the plans for dealing with the issues presented.

Update

Jeff has been working on the coach quite a bit.

The wheels were pulled and the brake components repaired / inspected as needed.   In addition, the wheel bearings were inspected and lubed.  Everything looked good and the brakes now work properly.

Jeff installed 4 new aluminum wheels,  moving the two steel wheels from the front to the inside rear position, and the new wheels on the rear outer and front positions.   New tires installed and the rig is ready to run.

After the first driving test,  Jeff called with some questions about my installation of the rebuilt carb and I explained that the throttle connections had puzzled me a bit, but I finally got it setup to where pushing on the gas increased the engine speed.   Jeff said the rig would only do about 20mph, and nowhere near full throttle.   I suggested that I may have used the wrong mounting hole for the ball post that the throttle linkage snaps on to and Jeff said he would look at the pictures I sent of the original carb and see if he could figure it out.   

Jeff got the carb straightened out and says the bus runs well now.

The rest of the story....

Well,  from where we left off,  there were several hours of bleeding the brake system with a Harbor Freight pneumatic brake bleeder.   This is a gadget that you hook to an air compressor and when you pull the trigger and air blows through it,  it creates suction in a collection bottle with a hose attached that you connect to the brakes.   This sucks the air out of the brake system.   In Theory.   It actually works that way about half the time, but somehow I kept managing to get air pressure blowing INTO the brake system.   This is a bad thing (tm).    Hydraulic brake systems are not supposed to have ANY air in them because the air will compress rather than having the hydraulic fluid move the wheel cylinders causing the brakes to work.    As the end of the day was approaching,  I calmed myself down and put away my tools and toys and cleaned myself up as best I could.    I realized that in general the vacuum bleeder worked at first, but as the air pressure dropped it seemed to have more of a chance of blowing air into the system.   I thought about this as I went to the el-cheapo hotel and cleaned up more,  and decided that in the morning I would only have the thing attached to the brakes while the air pressure was at it's highest.    Great idea,  but  wrong.    The thing still blew air into the brakes.   This is Friday now,  and I have to get the brakes working before I am willing to order the $2,750 worth of tires.  If I don't order the tires on Friday,  they will not be installed Saturday, but on Monday.   I have to be back in the Bay area on Monday.   I am beginning to feel the pressure and decide to invent my own tool.   I go to Harbor freight and buy a vacuum pump.   These are sold for working on air conditioning, but will serve my needs also.   I  rig up an air-hose connection  to the vacuum pump and block off the air-exhaust of the brake bleeder gadget, and viola!  I have a brake bleeder that provides constant vacuum - no blowing air this time !

I work through the booster and then each of the 4 wheel brakes.   They keep providing air as well as brake fluid.   I go through about 2 1/2 quarts of brake fluid.   I call Jeff at the brake shop and he gives me some advice and encouragement.   I keep plugging away.    Finally, about 6 PM  I am getting a bit of pedal, particularly if I pump the brakes.   I call Jeff again and he offers to come out Saturday morning.

Saturday morning,  I decide not to mess with the brakes too much before Jeff arrives,  and I spent some time spiffying up the dash / driver area,  playing with the lights and turn signals etc.   There is plenty of opportunity to learn about electricity in this rig, cause lots of things don't quite work.  Most disturbing is that with the left turn signal on (and the lights actually blinking)  there is no electricity on any of the trailer light connector plug pins.   This is bad cause U-Haul is known to actually care about trailer lights working properly.  Without the U-Haul tow dolly,  I won't be able to get my car home.

Jeff shows up and we start messing with the brakes.  His expert eye finds several small leaks,  all due to my being a little too shy about tightening things too tight.  We get the brakes to the point of actually holding pressure and it comes time to test!   We move the chocks a few feet in front of and behind the wheels,  start the bus and.....  put it in gear!    MOTION!   and... BRAKES!  the brakes actually stop the feeble 2 mph motion of the rig.   We pull the chocks completely away and discuss a route I will take that avoids tight turns and minimizes potential collisions.   I take the rig out of it's parking stall for the first time in 10 years and drive around a couple hundred yard ciricle.   I step on the brakes several times,  stopping the bus and re-starting.   The idle settles down to the 550 or so that it belongs at and the transmission seems to shift.

We stop the bus and park and check the wheels.  It seems like one is actually working, one is not and two others  maybe sorta.    The brake drums should all be about equally warm if the brakes are all working the same.

At this point several things are running through my mind.

1.   IT RUNS! ! !    IT DRIVES ! ! !     YIPPIE  let's head for home!  oh wait - need tires.  hmmmm

2.  Brakes are not working RIGHT.

3.  We discovered that the power steering hoses are leaking,  and the power steering belt is shot.

4.  The lights don't work right

5.  Can't get tires till Monday  and I have to be at WORK monday,  not playing with an antique bus.

2&3 are real show stoppers.  Where I work, we take safety very seriously.   It seems to have seeped into my hard skull somehow over the last 30 years.   The risk of running over some minivan full of kids  is not worth attempting to drive this thing on any public street, much less a highway.   #4&5 could maybe be mitigated, but only worth doing if 2&3 are completely resolved.  Not gonna happen on the apron of El Toro Marine Air base without jacks, stands  and appropriate tools.

Jeff had been getting more and more interested in the bus as we worked on it.   I was happy to let him take over the project - he has all the required skills (more than I do in any case)  and I knew the bus would have a good home.   I spoke with Jeff today (Tuesday 2 days later) and the rig is now at his house.   One of the wheels (most likely)  has leaked all of the brake fluid out - so #2  above was a much bigger issue than I had anticipated.  It would have been very unsafe to drive the rig for any distance.  If Jeff decides he does not want to keep the rig, he will contact me and give me the opportunity to take it back, which I appreciate.  Somehow,  this thing has gotten under my skin.

o7

Back in the South

I drove down yesterday with an uneventful trip. 

Got to Karp's Power Brake about 10:30  ( okay - so I slept in till 3:41  instead of 2:00 )  and picked up the master cylinder and power booster.  Jeff took a good 20 minutes going over things with me and gave me some good suggestions for my initial efforts with the brakes after getting the system bled.   I will write about them in another post tonight, after they work.

I got back to Retro and immediately sprayed the lug nuts with PB Blaster in anticipation of Pete's coming out tomorrow (actually today as I write this) to put new tires on - a little blaster should help with getting the rusty looking lugs off.

Then I proceeded to spray paint the new brake parts red.    It's not that I like red, you understand,  it's that I like color coding engineering system components.   If there are 4 3/8" metallic lines running along a section of frame rail,  which one is brakes  and which are fuel?    I will know,  when I am done with Retro,  because the fuel lines will be purple  and the brake lines will be red.   Vacuum will be yellow,  clean water blue  and waste water brown.    In addition,  the lines have white stripes (more blobs really at this point)    for each individual segment of line -  one blob   closest to engine,  two blobs for next most distal segment  etc.   I am disoriented enough upside down under a car,  any help I can get is gladly accepted.

I spiffed up the bolts etc. for the master cylinder and proceeded to install it.   Sort of.   Mostly.    You see, there is this spring.  It sort of fell out of a little box section of the chassis in front of the master cylinder.    It fell out before I could use my whiffy jiffy $69 Harbor Frieght inspection camera  to see where the other end was hooked on  inside the box section.    The end I could see was connected to the clevis pin that attaches the brake pedal linkage to the master cylinder yoke.  This is the pedal return spring and is probably kind of important.   I used my camera to look for where I would hook on.    Did I mention disorientation under the bus?  Multiply that by a zillion when using the inspection camera.  The camera end of the flexible shaft tends to spin around so you don't know which way is up unless you pay attention to the little white arrow on top of the camera end.     Anyway,  I took useless pictures with my cellphone camera.   I finally found it by feeling around.  It is a little hole in a lip on the bottom front of the box section,  about 1/4 of the way from the passenger side of the box.   (consider this as otherwise unfindable on the Internet knowledge).   Getting the spring on was a whole nother story - it is not an evil spring.... well  maybe not TOTALLY evil..    The routine is to get the front of the spring hooked on to the chassis,  use vice grips to pull the spring taut slip a screwdriver into the hook part of the spring and put the end of the screwdriver behind the yoke of the pedal linkage (with clevis and cotter installed)  to leverage the spring even more taut then re-position the vice grips further away from the end of the spring remove screwdriver and slip spring end over notchy part on clevis pin.   Springs fly when suddenly released from tension.   This easy to understand 84 odd word sentence is the result of 45 minutes of cussing, flying springs, and sheer determined tenacity.  Probably 40 trials of other technique and about 5 of this one.   Good Luck if you ever have to re-install this spring.   It can be done and if you have beefy manly muscles (I don't)  it will probably be easier.    I am a particularly doughy variety of techno-geek.

The booster went on with no complaints,  the 2 section line from the master to the booster installed and initial efforts at bleeding the system started.   More about bleeding in a later post.   Daylight's a wasting.

o7
 

The trip South

After speaking with the previous owner and looking at the dozens of pictures he sent me, I felt it was worth the trip from the San Francisco Bay area to Irvine to see the coach.   I left at about 2 AM and drove down I-5 listening to the all-night talk shows, various CDs or my own excited thoughts about what might be in store.

I arrived at the designated intersection and with a phone call was able to fine-tune and locate the owner.   We drove onto the re-purposed Marine Air Base and after not quite a mile stopped at a guard shack.  The owner showed an ID card, gestured to my car and we drove on with a smile and a wave from the guard.  As we proceeded RVs parked on the aprons and ramps of the former airbase increased in number.   Some fairly shiny and new,  some outright antiques, lined up and sitting in the California sun.   As we approached a hangar decorated with an air-wings mascot on the huge doors, I saw the Wanderlodge.

At first glance I could see that it was pretty straight - no obvious dents or dings.  Looked like all the trim was in place and even the glass was all there.   Sure,   the window seals on the windshield and back windows was dried out and cracked, but rubber certainly decays with time.

As the owner opened up the rig and showed me the inside,  I was a little taken aback.  This rig had been sitting for 10 years and had hosted some rodents during some of that time.   I had brought a shop vacuum with me, expecting it to be dirty and I was not disappointed.  During the time we were looking at the rig, he got a phone call in which he learned that the RV storage yard was closing in 20 days, and any rigs left after that time would be towed and stored at owners expen$e. In our phone conversations he had told me there would be at least 30 days, but the RV storage yard moved the date up.

 After showing me what was where etc.  the owner left me with the ID card and keys and wished me luck. He had informed me that the master brake cylinder was bad, and so that was high on my priority list.   Here is my assessment of the problems I needed to address to get the rig out of jepoardy:


1.   10 year old gas in tanks & lines - harmful to engine if I try to run it on that old gas.

2.   Dead chassis battery - need a battery to be able to run rig.

3.   Defective brakes.

4.   10 year (or more) old  tires must be replaced.

My plan was to use a borrowed battery to address #2  (no cost - borrowed batt from my jeep)
fix the brakes, and if I could get the motor running and the brakes worked well, then buy the tires.
This has the benefit of incremental cost with the option of bailing on the project at any point were the cost of proceeding exceeded  ( Insanity / BankAccount ) * Spousal Justification Coefficient.

I had anticipated #1  and brought empty fuel cans and a siphon pump with me.   Having thought about the problem,  I knew that the rig had 2 55 gallon fuel tanks,  and according to the owner, neither had much in them.    I proceeded to siphon the fuel from the rear tank (which tanks fuel pump sounded like it works)  into a 5 gallon can,  pour the gas into the front tank,  lather,  rinse repeat.  While the fuel (about 14 gallons) slowly siphoned out,  I began inspecting the brake master cylinder and preparing to remove it.

Once all the gas was moved, I began in earnest to pull the master cylinder out - not too badly stuck except for where the brake line attached to a fitting on the side of the cylinder.   The line was not coming off that fitting, even using the special tubing wrench I had picked up for the purpose.   The fitting was attached to the cylinder with a hollow bolt, which was fairly easy to remove and so the master was free in about a half-hours work.

Having the cylinder out enabled me to start trying to find a replacement - it had numbers on the side and part numbers are the key to getting parts, right?   Wrong.   Google was available on my phone and I am reasonably good at google-fu.  There may be a NOS master cylinder somewhere, but I wasn't finding it.   I became increasingly discouraged,  particularly because the emergency brake had been removed years earlier and none of the parts are with the rig.   Also the brake system on this bus is a single-circuit type.  Both the front and rear brakes operate off of a single master cylinder.   Most more modern cars have dual systems where the master cylinder is two hydraulically independent sections,  one for the front brakes and one for the rear.   A failure (think leak) in the front brakes will not affect the rear brakes in a dual system.   In a single system this is not true.   I became convinced that I would not keep going on the project because I felt that the single brake system was not safe, and besides,  I could not get the parts anyway.

I put my tools away and locked up the rig,  got myself a cheap hotel room and took a hot but water conservative (not very helpful after lying on ones back all afternoon) shower.     After a bit of rest, I started widening my google search - now on my laptop rather than the constrained screen of a phone. I found places that specialized in building brake systems for hotrods and classic cars.  Some of the places could build dual systems to replace what had been single systems when the cars were produced.   This information began to re-encourage me and before long I had found a place in Virginia that could rebuild my master cylinder for a few hundred dollars and would even overnight ship it back to me.    Realizing that the greater Los Angeles area might just have a similar service, I focused my search and found Karps Power Brake  in Upland  ( at least that's what they say - my GPS says they are actually in Montclair!  Do I care if they are GeoSpatially challenged ?  NO!  and besides, maybe the GPS is wrong.  or perhaps there is an ongoing turf war between the civic governments of Montclair and Upland.  I am not Political- I am keeping out of it.)

I called  Karps  and spoke with Jeff and he assured me that they could rebuild and possibly re-sleeve the master cylinder.  Then he asked me about the booster.   I replied,  there is no booster - just the master cylinder.  He gently pointed out that my foot and that master were not going to stop a 28,000 pound bus that was lumbering along a road.   Regarding the safety and reliability of the single system,  Jeff pointed out the millions of miles driven on such systems before the dual-systems became popular and he told me that the brakes would give a warning before failure - it may be a whisper, but it would be there.  With the idea of possibly converting to a dual system in the future,  and knowing I would be able to restore the emergency / parking brake (more googlefication gave me some confidence on that subject) I decided to move ahead.  There had to be a booster somewhere.   I crawled back under the bus and slid south on my creeper.  Lo and behold,  a rather large boosterish looking thingamajig.

I proceeded to remove the booster, and the brake line from the master to the booster so I could get a new line that was not stuck in the fitting for the master cylinder.   I called Jeff and discussed the booster and it's potential for rebuilding and agreed to bring both components by later in the day.

Since I had done about as much damage to the brake system as possible,  I decided to work on the engine next.  I had filled my trusty gas cans with fresh fuel, poured it into the rear tank and ran the fuel pump with an oil-change pan under the fuel filter from which I disconnected the output line.  The gas was at first amber and smelled like varnish, but after a gallon or two, started getting clearer and fresher smelling.    I pumped about 7 gallons through and then put the output line back in place.  The pumped out gas was added to the mess in the forward gas tank.  

Having been alive in the 60's  I was familiar with the hair singing technique known as "put a few thimblefuls of gas down the throat of the carb and see what happens when you turn the key".  I proceeded to pour the aforementioned fuel into the carb,  leaned back and twisted the key.   I was rewarded with a healthy rumble of Detroit's finest technology for about 4 seconds - then the sounds of silence.   This was so much fun that I did it a few more times.  (did I mention the Edelbrock manifold,  headers and glass packs?)  The carb, however was resolutely uncooperative.

So, I did what any geek would do - I USED THE GOOGLE ! !    I found a carb-rebuilding shop that was on the way (if you drove that way)  to the brake shop.   I called them and got a quote for rebuilding the Holly 4 Barrel, pulled the carb (after taking some "how the heck was this connected" photos)  and was on to the next task - cleaning. ( it was a little to late to brave LA rush hour at this point - the parts run would wait till morning )

I had a few hours before they would kick me out so I began removing all the textile and foam that looked like the varmints had been there.   Two dinette seat cushions (the backs are attached and will wait till I have the rig home for removal)  two mattresses etc.   The only fabric I believe I will keep is the snap-on privacy curtains for the front, driverside and passenger windows.   It looks relatively clean and I will get it dry cleaned and then evaluate it.   Cleaning out cabinets,  closets,  all kinds of stuff - campers accumulate stuff nearly as well as houses do, and the previous owner had moved across country and had no interest in anything in the rig.    I vacuumed.  and vacuumed.   and vacuumed.   I burned out my little 5 gallon shop vac  vacuuming so much, but I got nearly all of the obvious evidence of the varmints out of the rig.    I sprayed nearly every surface with Clorox Disinfecting bathroom cleaner.   All while wearing a dust mask  and gloves.  I may stop on the way home at a gas station with a big vacuum with a long hose and do another pass or two.

Next morning - my last day this trip - off to the carb shop.   Oh HAPPY DAY !  they have a Holley 4 Barrel on the shelf - looks like a dead-on match for mine.  A quick trip to the ATM ( Cash Only at Carb-X ) and I am the proud owner of a shiny carburetor.   On to Karps Power Brake.  ( Los Angeles area is  BIG!   At home I can drive 2 miles  and pass 2 auto parts stores, Home Depot,  Lowes, Target and Wal Mart.   From the RV  it is 8 miles to AutoZone  and about 10 to Home Depot.  How do they do it???? )   Anyway,  I get there,  show Jeff the parts,  and get the good news that the Master Cylinder is in fairly good shape for pushing 50 years and should be rebuild-able.  The booster could be problematic - there were two types that looked about like mine,  one is very rebuild-able and the other not so much.  Can't tell till they open them up.   I head back to the RV to see if the new carb works.

I install the carb. hmmm  something is wrong.  Backfire.   Backfire.   hmmmmm  oh! Throttle linkage on wrong.   Try again - much better !   a running engine!  The idle is high,  (1500 RPM) despite my plugging the vacuum line to the brake booster,  not sure what it could be.   well,  it runs,  it has oil pressure,  it is getting warm and the temp gauge works.    I am thinking I may have a vacuum leak, but it is getting late and I want to hit the road, so I will worry about the high idle next trip. 

This brings us to now.   It is 9:23 PM and I am about to hit the rack.  At about 2:00 AM I am going back south with a Hyundai full of tools,  a head full of hope and enthusiasm I have not felt in far too long.  If all goes well,  the brakes will work well enough tomorrow that I will call Pete's road service and order the $2,600 worth of tires to be installed on Friday.   I will also sign up for Coach - Net roadside service in case of trouble on the way home.    I will futz around with the lights and check the cooling system carefully.  I will inspect the belts and hoses, maybe pick up spares,  maybe change them out.  Remember that I am working in field conditions and under a bit of pressure and duress.  I need the coach to run for about 10 hours to get home and be able to park it and then give it the patient care and attention it requires and deserves, so wise old purists, realize I am trying to make a calculated assessment of the probability of getting home okay with as little field work as possible.
The plan is to tow the Hyundai on one of the cute little front-wheel-only dollies from u-haul and you better believe I am going to toe the 55mph line.   Or maybe 45 if the wind is the wrong way.  Going North via 101 so no 4500 foot Tejon pass (Grapevine)  just a couple of 1200 footers.  No hurry here,  just enjoying the ride as much as I can while going to full GQ over every new little sound I hear.
o7